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HARDi Reconstruction – multiple b values error when there are no multiple b values

UserPost

11:26 am
July 14, 2011


cibuthomas

Member

posts 16

Post edited 2:21 pm – July 15, 2011 by cibuthomas


 

Hello
I tried HARDi reconstruction on some DWI, 150 directions bmax = 3000, and 15 b = 0 volumes
The data were preprocessed to correct for motion and eddy current distortions and I exported it in the FSL format. So there is one analyze file and bvals and bvecs. I used a shell script that someone posted in the forum to convert it into a format that I thought DTI-TK will understand (please see below). However, when I run the HARDi reconstruction, I get the message Q-ball reconstruction cannot take multi-high b values. 
I have tried couple of ways of reformatting the table. For example, I removed the 4th column (which contains the B values), removing the commas for the numbers in the third column etc. But I get the same error.
I would greatly appreciate any suggestions to solve this problem.
Thank you 
Cibu
0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000
0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000
0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000
0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000
0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000
0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000
0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000
0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000
0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000
0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000
0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000
0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000
0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000
0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000
0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000
-0.8128, -0.4619, 0.35484, 2999.90
-0.5560, -0.8311, 0.00864, 2999.77
0.66437, -0.7436, 0.07446, 2999.57
0.14988, -0.0231, 0.98843, 3000.00
0.84203, -0.1011, 0.52984, 2999.94
-0.2337, -0.0701, 0.96976, 2999.67
0.30173, 0.35626, 0.88432, 2999.84
0.25771, 0.96609, 0.01552, 2999.99
-0.5141, 0.46474, 0.72086, 3000.09
-0.0661, -0.5822, 0.81032, 3000.19
0.70872, -0.4397, 0.55167, 3000.22
-0.2046, 0.63302, 0.74658, 3000.00
-0.8416, 0.50175, 0.19965, 2999.88
0.24421, -0.9576, 0.15266, 2999.80
-0.4749, 0.80543, 0.35449, 2999.69
0.64670, -0.1979, 0.73660, 3000.19
0.76411, 0.43389, 0.47735, 3000.14
-0.3069, -0.9360, 0.17175, 3000.18
-0.4477, 0.14116, 0.88292, 3000.28
-0.5275, -0.1530, 0.83564, 3000.20
0.71650, 0.11355, 0.68827, 2999.88
-0.7561, -0.1730, 0.63114, 2999.73
-0.0783, 0.19093, 0.97847, 2999.79
-0.9555, 0.29482, 0.00105, 2999.72
0.97795, -0.0857, 0.19039, 2999.78
-0.0397, -0.9477, 0.31655, 3000.35
0.31581, 0.79725, 0.51443, 3000.27
-0.0631, -0.9740, 0.21749, 2999.86
-0.0022, 0.72249, 0.69137, 2999.97
-0.0377, -0.9990, 0.02168, 2999.68
0.98149, 0.17624, 0.07488, 3000.02
-0.6655, 0.73187, 0.14631, 3000.33
-0.3698, -0.8994, 0.23294, 3000.11
0.50115, 0.36249, 0.78577, 2999.74
-0.0483, -0.8043, 0.59217, 3000.04
-0.1713, -0.8600, 0.48061, 2999.98
0.91329, 0.17305, 0.36871, 2999.58
-0.7750, 0.00674, 0.63192, 3000.35
0.29817, -0.7427, 0.59947, 2999.98
0.70441, -0.6352, 0.31660, 3000.40
0.01213, -0.7154, 0.69851, 3000.37
-0.3134, -0.8357, 0.45096, 2999.63
0.54264, -0.6050, 0.58261, 2999.66
0.47862, -0.4901, 0.72844, 2999.97
-0.5744, 0.64630, 0.50228, 3000.11
0.91377, 0.36983, 0.16801, 3000.07
-0.3034, 0.07951, 0.94952, 3000.23
-0.3836, 0.84164, 0.38002, 2999.76
-0.5412, -0.6241, 0.56336, 3000.06
0.22612, -0.6957, 0.68173, 2999.70
-0.8882, 0.03109, 0.45832, 3000.19
0.99108, 0.12661, 0.04151, 3000.27
-0.9351, 0.30819, 0.17486, 2999.65
0.29838, 0.94827, 0.10841, 3000.42
0.44078, 0.83227, 0.33620, 2999.96
-0.1846, 0.96622, 0.17972, 3000.27
-0.3264, -0.6470, 0.68900, 2999.90
-0.5577, -0.4336, 0.70768, 2999.27
-0.2038, 0.83191, 0.51612, 2999.65
0.03688, 0.48914, 0.87142, 2999.73
-0.2735, 0.40995, 0.87012, 2999.58
0.36653, -0.1906, 0.91065, 3000.18
0.70359, -0.6193, 0.34832, 3000.13
0.77747, 0.62883, 0.01030, 2999.45
-0.0245, 0.22765, 0.97343, 3000.32
-0.9049, -0.1779, 0.38641, 2999.87
0.69112, -0.1253, 0.71178, 3000.26
0.09056, 0.94984, 0.29933, 3000.41
-0.5600, 0.17796, 0.80911, 3000.06
-0.0149, -0.2755, 0.96118, 3000.41
0.79204, 0.60912, 0.04043, 3000.10
-0.2976, -0.3795, 0.87598, 2999.91
-0.2264, 0.94125, 0.25049, 3000.14
-0.7360, -0.2807, 0.61595, 2999.51
-0.9291, 0.24157, 0.27980, 2999.99
-0.0097, -0.0802, 0.99672, 2999.61
-0.0284, 0.99719, 0.06919, 2999.78
-0.1428, -0.5100, 0.84820, 2999.74
-0.3006, 0.68336, 0.66530, 3000.16
0.30215, 0.61183, 0.73100, 2999.64
-0.5486, -0.1223, 0.82703, 3000.16
0.08875, -0.3483, 0.93316, 2999.58
0.06154, 0.75538, 0.65238, 3000.28
0.24206, 0.27335, 0.93095, 2999.96
0.22451, 0.82013, 0.52628, 3000.26
-0.4626, 0.64509, 0.60809, 2999.79
0.69162, 0.66107, 0.29093, 2999.79
-0.9217, -0.2196, 0.31958, 3000.28
-0.6164, 0.75183, 0.23405, 3000.41
-0.9221, -0.3669, 0.12204, 2999.55
0.25823, 0.07685, 0.96302, 2999.75
-0.5656, 0.40176, 0.72014, 3000.11
-0.6983, -0.6809, 0.22023, 2999.98
-0.8091, 0.57626, 0.11491, 2999.97
0.34163, 0.90291, 0.26081, 3000.25
-0.4961, -0.7586, 0.42223, 3000.20
0.30642, 0.58470, 0.75114, 3000.24
0.22551, -0.8685, 0.44131, 2999.86
0.20360, -0.4563, 0.86620, 2999.86
0.43558, -0.8286, 0.35159, 3000.14
0.88602, -0.3683, 0.28160, 2999.86
0.60285, -0.7863, 0.13471, 2999.98
0.12383, -0.8963, 0.42573, 2999.60
0.81956, -0.5675, 0.07907, 3000.07
0.71812, 0.38759, 0.57798, 3000.13
-0.9905, 0.00419, 0.13733, 2999.62
0.57010, 0.38806, 0.72414, 2999.80
0.48747, -0.7028, 0.51802, 3000.17
0.87844, -0.1045, 0.46627, 3000.12
-0.4335, 0.89941, 0.05523, 3000.18
0.86338, -0.4857, 0.13630, 2999.54
-0.9838, -0.0042, 0.17903, 3000.23
0.75809, -0.3737, 0.53445, 2999.94
-0.4614, -0.4204, 0.78122, 3000.16
0.46920, -0.8437, 0.26072, 3000.32
0.06107, 0.92735, 0.36916, 3000.03
-0.4211, 0.90551, 0.05211, 3000.15
0.53347, -0.3689, 0.76111, 3000.08
-0.5673, -0.6599, 0.49248, 3000.55
-0.7882, 0.48636, 0.37705, 3000.08
-0.6180, -0.5467, 0.56486, 2999.91
-0.3213, -0.6772, 0.66183, 3000.17
-0.2916, 0.38936, 0.87369, 2999.97
0.53696, 0.09661, 0.83805, 2999.99
0.47776, 0.06720, 0.87591, 3000.35
-0.1222, 0.86854, 0.48030, 2999.90
-0.9186, -0.3816, 0.10161, 3000.05
0.76878, 0.54501, 0.33456, 2999.88
0.59556, 0.75696, 0.26888, 2999.97
-0.7731, -0.4110, 0.48304, 3000.08
0.97654, -0.2041, 0.06860, 3000.11
0.88584, 0.21263, 0.41239, 2999.86
-0.7692, -0.5802, 0.26756, 2999.80
-0.7025, 0.11531, 0.70227, 3000.39
0.53379, 0.64319, 0.54896, 3000.08
0.88111, -0.3232, 0.34512, 2999.95
0.01486, 0.50103, 0.86530, 2999.68
-0.7377, 0.31786, 0.59552, 2999.99
0.96010, -0.0157, 0.27919, 2999.55
0.26962, -0.5316, 0.80291, 2999.97
0.56600, 0.82240, 0.05737, 2999.99
-0.5621, -0.7947, 0.22859, 2999.92
0.22637, -0.9658, 0.12612, 3000.48
0.88029, 0.42719, 0.20637, 3000.17
-0.6865, 0.59053, 0.42417, 3000.06
-0.2637, -0.2364, 0.93515, 3000.48
-0.9028, 0.15120, 0.40260, 2999.89
0.38305, -0.2180, 0.89762, 2999.76
-0.7874, 0.33416, 0.51796, 2999.85
0.77025, 0.16033, 0.61724, 3000.26

 

12:30 pm
July 20, 2011


Ruopeng

Admin

posts 406

You should also remove all the (0,0,0) gradient vectors. Then specify how many b0's from the GUI.

Ruopeng

4:20 pm
July 21, 2011


cibuthomas

Member

posts 16

Thanks Roupeng. That helped with running the HARDi reconstruction without errors.

However the tractography results look very bizarre compared with the tracts extracted with DTI reconstruction ofthe same data. I have uploaded a figure comparing the HARDi vs DTI results. Somehow the gradient table for the HARDi appears to have been corrupted. Is there anyway to set it right? How does DTK know what the bmax is, and does it assume that the first 15 volumes are b0? 

cheers

Cibu

 

10:34 am
July 22, 2011


Ruopeng

Admin

posts 406

What do you mean by "corrupted"? The bmax can be set from the DTK user interface. But since odf is a distribution, it doesn't really affect tractography regardless what bmax value you set. You also need to set number of b0 to 15 so the recon program knows it.

Ruopeng

5:13 pm
July 25, 2011


cibuthomas

Member

posts 16

Thanks Roupeng

I am comparing the results of DTI tractography with HARDi tractography. I did the reconstruction in 3 different ways.

1. Using a package called TORTOISE, which does some standard preprocessing routines I get a tensor volume that can be read by Trackvis to do tractography

2. Use Tortoise to do the preprocessing but before doing any tensor fitting I export it in analyze format and then use DTK to do the reconstruction in (a) DTI and (b) HARDi.

The tracts from (1) look consistent with the anatomy. The tracts from 2a and 2b are not consistent with the anatomy, but they are consistent between each other. 

The problem appears to be at the reconstruction end and I am guessing that the gradient table I provide is at the heart of this problem.  I have set b0 to 15 in the UI, but it doesn't change things.

 I was wondering if there is something else I could try like flipping the columns in the matrix etc.

 

cheers

Cibu

 

 

11:34 am
August 1, 2011


Ruopeng

Admin

posts 406

What does (a) and (b) look like? Are they completely junk or there is just some mismatch?

Ruopeng

7:30 pm
August 3, 2011


cibuthomas

Member

posts 16

Tracts from a and b loook alike with very  minor differences.

Please note that in the figure below a) represents tracts from DTI recosntruction of the data using DTK, b) represent the same but with HARDI reconstruction.

In contrast the tracts from dti reconstruction of the same data but using a different package look more reliable.

looking forward to your comments

 

Cibu

 

 

 

1:13 pm
August 5, 2011


Ruopeng

Admin

posts 406

Looks like you have a slice filter applied. Not sure if that matters but the tracks look not too bad to me. Would it be possible to send me the track file to look at?

Ruopeng